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Carney & Wehofer Family
Genealogy Pages
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 Abt 1178 - Abt 1206 (~ 28 years)
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| Name |
"Joan" Tangwystl Verch LLYWARCH [1, 2] |
| Nickname |
Joan |
| Born |
Abt 1178 |
Rhos, Denbighshire, Wales  [2, 3] |
| Gender |
Female |
| FamilySearch ID |
9HFS-GG1 |
| _UID |
3CF502C3CF8D478C828CCB5E68D97D203A54 |
| Died |
Abt 1206 [2, 3] |
| Person ID |
I11006 |
Carney Wehofer 2024 Genealogy |
| Last Modified |
14 Jan 2023 |
| Father |
Llywarch Ap IORWERTH, Lord Of Rhos, b. Abt 1139, Rhos, Denbighshire, Wales , d. Yes, date unknown |
| Mother |
Tangwystl Verch LLYWARCH, b. Abt 1150, Menai, Anglesey, Wales , d. Yes, date unknown |
| Married |
Bef 1177 |
2ND Husband [2] |
| Family ID |
F6923 |
Group Sheet | Family Chart |
| Family |
Llewelyn Ap IORWERTH, Prince Of Wales, b. 1173, Aberffraw Castle, Aberffraw, Anglesy, Wales , d. 11 Apr 1240, Conwy, Caernarfonshire, Wales (Age 67 years) |
| Married |
16 Apr 1205 |
Cheshire, England [2, 3] |
| Children |
| | 1. Margaret Verch LLEWELYN, b. 1204, Caernarvonshire, Walesey, Wales , d. Aft 1268, Clifford Castle, Herefordshire, England (Age 65 years) |
| | 2. Gwladys FERCH LLYWELYN, b. Abt 1205, Caernarfonshire, Wales , d. 24 Oct 1251, Windsor, Berkshire, England (Age ~ 46 years) |
| | 3. Gruffudd Ap LLEWELYN, Prince Of Gwynedd, b. Abt 1206, Gwynedd, Caernarvonshire, Wales , d. 1 Mar 1243-1244, Fall From Tower Of London, Middlesex, England (Age ~ 38 years) |
| | 4. Elen ferch LLEWELYN, Princess Of North Wales, b. 1207, Abergwyngregyn, Gwynedd, Wales , d. 1253, Gwynedd, Wales (Age 46 years) |
| | 5. Angharad ferch LLYWELYN, b. Abt 1212, Caernarfonshire, Wales , d. 1260 (Age ~ 48 years) |
| | 6. Susanna FERCH LLYWELYN, b. 1216, d. Yes, date unknown |
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| Last Modified |
13 Dec 2022 |
| Family ID |
F5550 |
Group Sheet | Family Chart |
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| Notes |
- NEED CLARIFICATION:
Joan, Lady of Wales and Lady of Snowdon, also known by her Welsh name often written as Siwan (c. 1191/92 – February 1237) was the illegitimate daughter of King John of England, and was the wife of Llywelyn the Great, Prince of Wales (initially King of Gwynedd), effective ruler of all of Wales. Joan or Siwan in Welsh has been referred to as both "Lady of Wales" and "Princess of Wales".
Early life
Joan should not be confused with her half-sister, Joan, Queen consort of Scotland.
Little is known about her early life. Her mother's name is known only from Joan's obituary in the Tewkesbury Annals, where she is called "Regina Clementina" (Queen Clemence); there is no evidence that her mother was in fact of royal blood. Joan may have been born in France, and probably spent part of her childhood there, as King John had her brought to the Kingdom of England from Normandy in December 1203, in preparation for a marriage alliance to Prince Llywelyn ap Iorwerth.
Thomas Pennant, in "Tours in Wales", Volume 2, published London, 1810, writes : "It is said that Llewelyn the Great had near this place [Trefriw] a palace; ... The church of Trefriw was originally built by Llewelyn, for the ease of his princess, who before was obliged to go on foot to Llanrhychwyn, a long walk among the mountains."
Marriage
Joan was betrothed to Llywelyn the Great in 1204, and the marriage is thought to have taken place in 1205, although some of the annals of the abbey of St Werburgh in Chester say that it occurred in 1204. S
he and Llywelyn had at least four children together:
1. Gwladus Ddu (1206– 1251), who married (1) Reginald de Braose and (2) Ralph de Mortimer, with whom she had issue.
2. Elen ferch Llywelyn (Helen or Ellen) (1207– 1253), married (1) John the Scot, Earl of Chester and (2) Robert II de Quincy
3. Susanna, who was sent to England as a hostage in 1228.
4. Dafydd ap Llywelyn (c. 1212– 1246) married Isabella de Braose, died at Abergwyngregyn.
Some of Llywelyn's other recorded children may also have been Joan's:
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn
- Marared/Margaret (born c.1202) who married (1) Sir John de Braose (called Tadody), grandson of William de Braose, 4th Lord of Bramber. She married (2) Sir Walter de Clifford and had children by both husbands.
Joan often mediated between her husband and her father. According to Brut y Tywysogion (The chronicle of the princes), when John was successfully campaigning in North Wales, "Llywelyn, being unable to suffer the king's rage, sent his wife, the king's daughter, to him, by the counsel of his leading men, to seek to make peace with the king on whatever terms he could."
In April 1226 Joan obtained a papal decree from Pope Honorius III, declaring her legitimate on the basis that her parents had not been married to others at the time of her birth, but without giving her a claim to the English throne.
Adultery
At Easter 1230, William de Braose, who was Llywelyn's prisoner at the time, was discovered with Joan in Llywelyn's bedchamber. William de Braose was hanged on 2 May 1230, according to local folklore at Abergwyngregyn; the place was known as Gwern y Grog. A letter from Nicholas, Abbot of Vaudy, suggests that the execution took place at Crogen near Bala (crogi means to hang).
Joan was placed under house arrest for twelve months after the incident. She was then, according to the Chronicle of Chester, forgiven by Llywelyn and restored to favour. She may have given birth to a daughter early in 1231.
Joan or Siwan in Welsh has been referred to as both "Lady of Wales" and "Princess of Wales".
Death and burial
Joan died at the royal home at Abergwyngregyn, on the north coast of Gwynedd, in 1237. Llywelyn's great grief at her death is recorded; he founded a Franciscan friary in her honour on the seashore at Llanfaes, opposite the royal residence. This was consecrated in 1240, shortly before Llywelyn died. It was destroyed in 1537 by Henry VIII of England during the Dissolution of the Monasteries. A stone coffin originally identified as Joan's can be seen in St Mary's and St Nicholas's parish church, Beaumaris, Anglesey. Above the empty coffin is a slate panel inscribed:
"This plain sarcophagus, (once dignified as having contained the remains of Joan, daughter of King John, and consort of Llewelyn ap Iorwerth, Prince of North Wales, who died in the year 1237), having been conveyed from the Friary of Llanfaes, and alas, used for many years as a horsewatering trough, was rescued from such an indignity and placed here for preservation as well as to excite serious meditation on the transitory nature of all sublunary distinctions. By Thomas James Warren Bulkeley, Viscount Bulkeley, Oct 1808"
In recent years doubt has been cast on the identity of the woman shown on the coffin lid, which is not thought to belong to the coffin on which it rests. Experts have suggested the costume and style of carving belong to a much later decade than the 1230s when Joan died, although the coronet would indicate a member of the royal family. Eleanor de Montfort is thought the likeliest alternative.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan,_Lady_of_Wales
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Joan (Joanna) was an illegitimate daughter of King John of England and a woman named Clemence. She should not be confused with her legitimate half-sister Joan, Queen Consort of Scotland.
Little is known about her early life; she was possibly born before her father, King John of England, married his first wife in 1189. Her mother's name is known only from Joan's obituary in the Tewkesbury Annals, where she is mysteriously called "Regina Clementina" (Queen Clemence). Joan seems to have spent her childhood in France, as King John had her brought to the Kingdom of England from Normandy in preparation for her wedding in December 1203 at 15 years of age or so.
Joan married Llywelyn the Great between December 1203 and October 1204.
In April 1226 Joan obtained a papal decree from Pope Honorius III, declaring her legitimate on the basis that her parents had not been married to others at the time of her birth, but without giving her a claim to the English throne.
At Easter 1230, William de Braose, 10th Baron Abergavenny, who was Llywelyn's nominal prisoner at the time, was discovered together with Joan in Llywelyn's bedchamber. William de Braose was hanged, probably at Crogen, on 2 May 1230. Joan was placed under house arrest for twelve months. She was forgiven by Llywelyn, and restored as wife and princess. Joan was never called Princess of Wales, but, in Welsh, "Lady of Wales". She died at the royal home, Garth Celyn, Aber Garth Celyn, on the north coast of Gwynedd in 1237. Llywelyn's great grief at her death is recorded; he founded a Franciscan friary on the seashore at Llanfaes, opposite the royal home, in her honour. The friary was consecrated in 1240, shortly before Llywelyn died. It was closed down in 1537 by Henry VIII of England during the Dissolution of the Monasteries.
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| Sources |
- [S845] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, by Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Shippard Jr., 1999, 27-27, 260-31 (Reliability: 3).
- [S39] jweber.ged.
- [S82] jweberstrange.ged.
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