Sybil DE BRAOSE

Other Events:

• FamilySearch ID: LYDM-F1T
• _UID: A0001D7CF3154EAFA6D08F5DEA6B6C7FE0AB

Sybil married between 1173 and 1174 in Sussex, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

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• _UID: 2E3CFA36037A4B9AAFE6C7A8141380D07795

Notes:

It is known that Agatha was a mistress of John, but it is only supposition that she is the mother of his child.

Family/Spouse: John "Lackland" King Of England PLANTAGENET. John (son of King Henry II PLANTAGENET and Queen Eleanor De AQUITAINE) was born on 24 Dec 1166 in Kings Manor House, Oxford, Oxfordshire, England; died on 19 Oct 1216 in Newark, Nottinghamshire, England; was buried in Cathedral, Worcester, Worcestershire, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

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• _UID: AA11C00CAD244E6EA050CAF9BCBF8BEDBA46

Notes:

Following from Leo van de Pas in a posting to soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup, 23 Feb 1999:

I found the following about Joan bastard of England, after her death she was buried at Llanfaes but, at the dissolution of the monastery, her coffin was removed. In the 19th century it was discovered that it was being used as a horse trough. Rescued from this use, it was placed in Baron Hill Park, near Beaumaris in Anglesey. The most recent location is given as the Church of St. Mary and St. Nicholas in Beaumaris.

Joan married in 1205. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Joan married Llewelyn Ap IORWERTH, Prince Of Wales in 1206. Llewelyn (son of Iorwerth "Drwyndwn" Ap OWAIN, Prince North Wales and Marared Verch MADOG) was born in 1173 in Aberffraw Castle, Aberffraw, Anglesy, Wales; died on 11 Apr 1240 in Conwy, Caernarfonshire, Wales; was buried in Apr 1240 in Aberconwy Abbey, Conwy, Caernarfonshire, Wales. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

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• Name: Ddu
• Name: Gwladys DDU
• _UID: E064F6F765444AF4880E67AA8CFF82723EFC

Notes:

He [William de Briouze] m. 2ndly, 1215, Gwladus Du, daughter of Llewelyn ap Iorwerth, Prince of North Wales, by his 2nd wife Joan, illegitimate daughter of King John. He d. between 5 May 1227 and 9 June 1228. His widow m. 2ndly, Ralph de Mortimer, of Wigmore, who d. 6 Aug 1246, and was buried at Wigmore Abbey. She d. at Windsor in 1251. [Complete Peerage I:22]

He [Ralph de Mortimer] married, in 1230, Gladys (Gladusa) Duy, or Dark-eyed, daughter of Llewelyn AP JORWORTH, by his 2nd wife, Joan (illegitimate daughter of KiNG JOHN), and widow of Reynold DE BRAOSE [died June 1228). He died 6 August 1246, and was buried at Wigmore. His widow died in 1251. [Complete Peerage IX:275-6, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

NOTE: The identity of Gwladus's mother is still a matter of debate. There is no clear contemporary evidence that her mother was Joan, and a daughter of Llewelyn and Joan could not have been aged more than about 9 in 1215. The only direct statements appear to come some centuries later. One strand of the later tradition does identify Gwladus's mother as Joan, but another says she was Llewelyn's mistress Tangwystl.

[This question has been discussed by - among many others - Stewart Baldwin, Rosie Bevan, Ken Finton, Todd Farmerie, John P. Ravilious, Paul Reed, Douglas Richardson, Henry Sutliff, Nat Taylor and Brad Verity.] [Some Corrections and Additions to CP]

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Let me make one final general observation. There was a definite and timely reason that Reginald de Broase married Gwladys Ddu in 1215. His brother Giles, Bishop of Hereford, rebelled as soon as he received a royal grant of 'his' patrimony and joined Llywelyn (as leader of the Welsh forces) in general rebellion against John (remember that this was also about the time the North of England, etc., rebelled against John). Reginald immediately joined his brother in marching on their patrimony in the Marches to secure it by force. To cement their alliance (Giles being a bishop and all), Reginald was married to a daughter of Prince Llywelyn. Her name happened to be Gwladys, the dark eyed.

I would find it EXTRAORDINARILY coincidental if Gwladys just happened to be BARELY age twelve in 1215, when it was found expedient to marry her to Reginald. He was older, already experienced in the art of war and the ability to lead men. His elder deceased brother William was already father of four sons held as hostages by King John.

I would be utterly amazed if we found that Gwladys was aged twelve in 1215. The cause of their marriage was not (as far as we know) a prearranged marriage contract that happened to coincide with political expediency--the marriage was a RESULT of the political events that occurred in 1215.

After Reginald de Braose betrayed Llywelyn and became King John's man in 1217 [to give homage, one had to be in the actual presence of the King], and his nephew John de Braose was released in 1218, Llywelyn found a ready ally in the younger John, who was attempting to get his rightful inheritance from Reginald (who was in possession of most of it), in 1218, Llywelyn, out of political expediency, married his daughter Margared to this John.

Thus, if the marriage between Gwladys and Reginald was the result of political events, and they had not been heatedly awaiting her birthday so that they could be wed in a full and legal manner that would be permanent--rather than something that could be easily broken (or at least broken with some effort and complicity)--I would conclude it is most likely that Gwladys was actually older than twelve years old in 1215. Does that seem reasonable? [Paul C Reed, 30 Nov 2001, soc.genealogy.medieval]

Gwladys married about 1215 in 1st Husband 2ND Wife. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Gwladys married in 1230 in 2ND Husband. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

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• _UID: D488840583CB41C5A2ABAF671F33A67307B3

Notes:

Angharad [daughter of Joan, Princess of Wales & Llewellyn ap Iorworth, Prince of Wales]; m. Maelgwyn Fychan, lord of Cardigan Is Ayron, d. 1257. [Ancestral Roots]

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• _UID: 6D58D510194A4400B854E6E69AF43BA799BF

Notes:

He [John le Scot] married, 1222, Helen, daughter of LLEWELLYN AP IORWERTH, PRINCE OF NORTH WALES, and by her is suspected to have been poisoned. He died s.p., at Darnall, co. Chester, very shortly before 6 June 1237, and was buried at St. Werburg's, Chester, leaving the two daughters of his eldest sister and his three surviving sisters, as his coheirs, but in 1246 the Earldom of Chester was annexed to the Crown "lest so fair (preclara) a dominion should be divided (inter colas feminarum) among women." His widow married, before 5 December 1237, Robert DE QUINCY (youngest son of Saher, Earl of Winchester), who died s.p.m., August 1257. She died 1253, before 24 October. [Complete Peerage III:169-70, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)

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Received manors of Bidford, Warwickshire & Suckley, Worcestershire as maritagium.

Helen married in 1222 in 1st Husband. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Helen married before 5 Dec 1237 in 2ND Husband. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]